Discussion:
TV cop Richard Belzer says choke claim is fiction
(too old to reply)
Travoltron
2010-03-13 23:14:17 UTC
Permalink
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/hell_belz_not_me_rgLoVFefaClM2H1ooIR7oL

TV cop Richard Belzer says choke claim is fiction


"Law & Order" TV cop Richard Belzer said an Apple employee's claim that
he choked her in an Upper West Side computer store was like a storyline
from his show -- pure fiction.

"The sad part of it was that police officers were called and had to
report to the scene, and God knows we don't need all that manpower
wasted on a trivial accusation that was clearly done either for
attention or to embarrass a famous person," Belzer told The Post.

Cops were called to the West 67th Street Apple Store in response to a
911 report of an assault in progress Wednesday evening after the
comedian and two aides stepped in to buy a computer.

An employee, Milan Agnew, 21, told police that Belzer grabbed her
shoulders, shook her and choked her before barking, "I need help."

But Belzer said Agnew is the one who needs help -- for being so delusional.

"I've never had even the slightest rudeness like this at the Apple
store," Belzer said. "They're all great. I think you have to pass a
personality test to work there, and I don't know how this woman slipped
through the cracks."

Belzer, 65, who lives on Riverside Drive, was questioned by police, but
not charged with a crime. Cops also looked at surveillance video, and
determined that he did nothing wrong.

The actor said that after waiting an unusually long time for service, he
put his hands on Agnew's shoulder, but did nothing after that but ask
for help.

"She wanted attention and she knew who I was and I clearly didn't
assault her," Belzer said. "It's surprising that Apple would not
apologize to such a high-profile, good customer. I've spent thousands of
dollars there. I don't want her to be fired, I just want her to seek help."

But Agnew said it was Belzer who was out of line.

"I'm not star-struck by anyone," Agnew said. "I approached him like he
was a regular customer. I asked, 'How can I help you?' He told me what
he needed, and then before I was able to speak again, he lunges in and
grabs my neck. It was no gentle manner. There is no gentle manner to
grab someone's neck."

Agnew filed a harassment complaint with the NYPD, which she can pursue
in Civil Court.

"I just think something more could have been done," Agnew said. "Had it
been someone else, there would have been some repercussions."

A spokeswoman for the Apple Store could not be reached for comment.

Despite the hassle, Belzer bought a new computer, a 21.5-inch iMac to go
with an iBook the same store comped him at their opening.

Belzer said he will return to the store for future purchases.

The longtime standup comedian has played the role of Detective John
Munch in both "Homicide: Life on the Street" and in "Law & Order: SVU."
Society
2010-03-14 09:03:03 UTC
Permalink
"Travoltron" <***@defender.uni> wrote in message
news:hnh68i$bbp$***@speranza.aioe.org...
>
> http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/hell_belz_not_me_rgLoVFefaClM2H1ooIR7oL
>
> TV cop Richard Belzer says choke claim is fiction
>
> "Law & Order" TV cop Richard Belzer said an Apple
> employee's claim that he choked her in an Upper West Side
> computer store was like a storyline from his show --
> pure fiction. [...]

And what TV show would that be?

> The longtime standup comedian has played the role
> of Detective John Munch in both "Homicide: Life on
> the Street" and in "Law & Order: SVU."

Oh ho, Dick is an enabler for the hyper-misandrous media
poison that is _SVU_. Well, Mr. Comedian, consider this
trip through the wringer your chance for a much-needed
and overdue personal learning experience.

Very likely in New York, a mere touch of any kind is - at a
minimum - misdemeanor assault. And she's a girl. Good
luck on that community service sentence you may be serving,
Richard Belzer. (Suddenly that All Men Are Rapists crap
you've been helping to dish out on your disgusting show
is getting personal, eh?)

--
Men who are unjustly accused of rape
can sometimes gain from the experience.

Catherine Comins, Vassar College
Assistant Dean of Student Life
quoted in Time, June 3, 1991, p. 52.
Andrew Usher
2010-03-14 12:04:41 UTC
Permalink
Society wrote:

> Oh ho, Dick is an enabler for the hyper-misandrous media
> poison that is _SVU_. Well, Mr. Comedian, consider this
> trip through the wringer your chance for a much-needed
> and overdue personal learning experience.

This is what they all do. All male feminists believe it can't happen
to them, only to those other _bad_ men. In fact this isn't limited to
feminism: as I just said in my reply to Ste, any injustice that
strikes apparently randomly will have people ignoring it for this
reason.

> Very likely in New York, a mere touch of any kind is - at a
> minimum - misdemeanor assault.

Yes, that's a problem that's existed for a long time with our laws.
But such things were very rarely prosecuted before. Now, with
feminism, anything can happen.

> And she's a girl. Good
> luck on that community service sentence you may be serving,
> Richard Belzer. (Suddenly that All Men Are Rapists crap
> you've been helping to dish out on your disgusting show
> is getting personal, eh?)

What we need is for these guys not only to change their own beliefs
but to go public with it - but that will never happen.

Andrew Usher
Travoltron
2010-03-14 19:11:12 UTC
Permalink
On 3/13/2010 3:14 PM, Travoltron wrote:
> http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/hell_belz_not_me_rgLoVFefaClM2H1ooIR7oL

> The actor said that after waiting an unusually long time for service, he
> put his hands on Agnew's shoulder, but did nothing after that but ask
> for help.

> Agnew filed a harassment complaint with the NYPD, which she can pursue
> in Civil Court.
>
> "I just think something more could have been done," Agnew said. "Had it
> been someone else, there would have been some repercussions."

She's probably right about that part. A regular guy probably wouldn't
have been given the time to explain nor ask for the surveillance video.

I hope this was a wake-up call for Belzer, but it probably wasn't.
Vince
2010-03-13 20:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Travoltron wrote:
> On 3/13/2010 3:14 PM, Travoltron wrote:
>> http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/hell_belz_not_me_rgLoVFefaClM2H1ooIR7oL
>>
>
>> The actor said that after waiting an unusually long time for service, he
>> put his hands on Agnew's shoulder, but did nothing after that but ask
>> for help.
>
>> Agnew filed a harassment complaint with the NYPD, which she can pursue
>> in Civil Court.
>>
>> "I just think something more could have been done," Agnew said. "Had it
>> been someone else, there would have been some repercussions."
>
> She's probably right about that part. A regular guy probably wouldn't
> have been given the time to explain nor ask for the surveillance video.
>
> I hope this was a wake-up call for Belzer, but it probably wasn't.


Sour grapes on her part.
If that happen to me DAMN right I too would ask them to play the
surveillance video.

What wake up call for Richard he didn't do anything?
Travoltron
2010-03-14 19:34:42 UTC
Permalink
On 3/13/2010 12:15 PM, Vince wrote:

> What wake up call for Richard he didn't do anything?

Well, depending on your politics, either:

A) He should become more receptive to men that are accused of crimes be
women, re: his TV shows and alleged liberal politics

or

B) He should begrudgingly accept it's a different era and in today's
society a person just can't lay hands on another person like they used to.

I agree he didn't do anything wrong, too. If he really did, she should
(and would) release those videos. And I don't know how she'll make
harassment charges stick due to a one-time incident to which she never
stated "no" or "stop" to.
Ray O'Hara
2010-03-15 01:30:40 UTC
Permalink
"Travoltron" <***@defender.uni> wrote in message
news:hnjdor$2u4$***@speranza.aioe.org...
> On 3/13/2010 12:15 PM, Vince wrote:
>
>> What wake up call for Richard he didn't do anything?
>
> Well, depending on your politics, either:
>
> A) He should become more receptive to men that are accused of crimes be
> women, re: his TV shows and alleged liberal politics
>
> or
>
> B) He should begrudgingly accept it's a different era and in today's
> society a person just can't lay hands on another person like they used to.
>
> I agree he didn't do anything wrong, too. If he really did, she should
> (and would) release those videos. And I don't know how she'll make
> harassment charges stick due to a one-time incident to which she never
> stated "no" or "stop" to.


you are blowing out yor ass.
she doesn't control the videos.
she saw a chance to extort money and it's going awry
Vince
2010-03-14 04:41:26 UTC
Permalink
Ray O'Hara wrote:
> "Travoltron" <***@defender.uni> wrote in message
> news:hnjdor$2u4$***@speranza.aioe.org...
>> On 3/13/2010 12:15 PM, Vince wrote:
>>
>>> What wake up call for Richard he didn't do anything?
>> Well, depending on your politics, either:
>>
>> A) He should become more receptive to men that are accused of crimes be
>> women, re: his TV shows and alleged liberal politics
>>
>> or
>>
>> B) He should begrudgingly accept it's a different era and in today's
>> society a person just can't lay hands on another person like they used to.
>>
>> I agree he didn't do anything wrong, too. If he really did, she should
>> (and would) release those videos. And I don't know how she'll make
>> harassment charges stick due to a one-time incident to which she never
>> stated "no" or "stop" to.
>
>
> you are blowing out yor ass.
> she doesn't control the videos.
> she saw a chance to extort money and it's going awry
>
>

Item A makes no sense


Item B is among one of the dumbest statements yet.
Hunter
2010-03-15 13:21:52 UTC
Permalink
In article <hnjdor$2u4$***@speranza.aioe.org>, ***@defender.uni
says...
> On 3/13/2010 12:15 PM, Vince wrote:
>
> > What wake up call for Richard he didn't do anything?
>
> Well, depending on your politics, either:
>
> A) He should become more receptive to men that are accused of crimes be
> women, re: his TV shows and alleged liberal politics
>
> or
>
> B) He should begrudgingly accept it's a different era and in today's
> society a person just can't lay hands on another person like they used to.
>
> I agree he didn't do anything wrong, too. If he really did, she should
> (and would) release those videos. And I don't know how she'll make
> harassment charges stick due to a one-time incident to which she never
> stated "no" or "stop" to.
----
The only way we can properly judge is to see the video tape
ourselves, but we have to rely on the cops and they saw NOTHING
criminal. Nothing. If he had roughly put his hands on her shoulders
and nothing else that would had been enough for the cops to arrest
him for assault. As I said, he probably did what we have all done to
everyone and everyone has done to us: Put his hand on her shoulder
(or elbow or upper arm) to get her attention, especially if he was
behind her to speculate from what position he touched her. To
speculate further, judging from the fact the store was busy it could
had been quite noisy if so further reason to do that. Again, I am not

saying actually grabbing her but as a society we allowed some
touching between strangers to help facilitate communication between
people, and I don't for a moment see this as a male-female or
conservative-liberal attitude regarding women thing. It has nothing
to do with Belzer's politics or the politics of the show. This
nonsense cheapens the struggle women go though everyday. She is at
best a big touchy baby or at worse saw a golden opportunity to get
some dough from him.

I am not saying people have the right to touch you, your personal
space is your personal space especially your actual body, but if we
have gotten to the point that with a mere touch maybe just even
tapping on one's shoulders, criminal charges can be laid against you
then we are in trouble. This is a wake up call to *all* of us and
another example of us having become less civil to each other,
especially if you are a rich celebrity having to guard against shake
downs like this.

Oh btw she doesn't control the video tape, the store does. She could
subpoena it if she wish to file suit in this bogus case and very
likely get it, but she doesn't control it. Unless the store is under
some restrictive court order the store can publicize it. I just
thank goodness there was a tape or this case probably would had
resulted in Belzer being arrested and probably had to plea out
essentially admitting to something he didn't do as to not draw out
the affair. Then be threatened to be sued civilly which would had
been settled out of court with her getting some money with a lot of
people cynically actually thinking he really did this thing if they
hadn't already. I mean innocent people don't plead out or settle
lawsuits out of court if they really didn't do anything wrong right?
<sarcasm> --
----->Hunter

"No man in the wrong can stand up against
a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'."

-----William J. McDonald
Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907
Hunter
2010-03-15 10:46:30 UTC
Permalink
In article <hnjccs$a0$***@speranza.aioe.org>, ***@defender.uni
says...
> On 3/13/2010 3:14 PM, Travoltron wrote:
> > http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/hell_belz_not_me_rgLoVFefaClM2H1ooIR7oL
>
> > The actor said that after waiting an unusually long time for service, he
> > put his hands on Agnew's shoulder, but did nothing after that but ask
> > for help.
>
> > Agnew filed a harassment complaint with the NYPD, which she can pursue
> > in Civil Court.
> >
> > "I just think something more could have been done," Agnew said. "Had it
> > been someone else, there would have been some repercussions."
>
> She's probably right about that part. A regular guy probably wouldn't
> have been given the time to explain nor ask for the surveillance video.
----
His putting his hands on someone's shoulders in the context he
explained and is very likely backed up by the video tape is perfectly
appropriate. Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
his/her attention including one's shoulders? I have and I have had it
done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
just her shoulder for Christ sake!! And from what I gathered from
this and other stories about the incident it wasn't in a rough
manner. He certainly didn't grab her by the shoulders and spun her
around. That would had been offensive and she would be justified in
her complaint but that didn't happen.

And we know the store employee heavily embellished her story since
key instances, most importantly the choking, didn't happened as
revealed by the store security video tape. And yes a lot of ordinary
people wouldn't had been given the time to explain or ask for the
surveillance video, but that isn't his fault or any other
celebrity's. Yes that is probably preferential treatment, but they
are getting the consideration EVERYONE should get in that situation.
The question isn't that rich celebrities should be treated like
everyone else, I think in this case an many others the everyone else
should be treated like the rich celebrities. For instance it doesn't
make me feel better that rich suspects like in the ENRON and ENRON
like cases get "perp walked" in front of cameras like everyone else,
I don't like the "perp walk" in anycase because I believe it violates
innocence until proven guilty. So I think Belzer was given the
treatment everyone else should get. What would be the hurt to cops if
an average Joe would have the cops check the video tape to see if it
backs him up *before* he has to go through the ordeal of being
arrested and put through the system?
>
> I hope this was a wake-up call for Belzer, but it probably wasn't.
---
It is a wake up call only if it was his fault. From what was
described and according to the cops there wasn't anything wrong with
the touch. Even if it was somehow a little inappropriate, the fact
that she lied about the choking-something that would had been on the
tape and clearly would had been an assault-shows that she either had
the spur of the moment thought to take advantage of a celebrity for
financial gain or had that idea going in the moment she saw him in
the store. If there should be "repercussions" it should be against
the woman who filed the false report. Try to reconcile these two
sides:

"I'm not star-struck by anyone," Agnew said. "I approached him like
he was a regular customer. I asked, 'How can I help you?' He told me
what he needed, and then before I was able to speak again, he lunges
in and grabs my neck. It was no gentle manner. There is no gentle
manner to grab someone's neck."

But according to the cops:

"Belzer, 65, who lives on Riverside Drive, was questioned by police,
but not charged with a crime. Cops also looked at surveillance video,
and determined that he did nothing wrong."

Both http://tinyurl.com/yeokf36

I believe the videotape backs up Belzer. Cops bust celebrities all
the time. If there was something criminal on the tap NYPD would had
collared him.

It could be a "wake up call" to rich celebrities that they have to be
careful with ordinary people and you can't be too friendly with them.
Remember that if you see a celebrity and you walk up to them and they
seem to act like you are about mug them or something. I strongly
suspect that is what Andrew essentially tried to do with Belzer.
--
----->Hunter

"No man in the wrong can stand up against
a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'."

-----William J. McDonald
Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907
Vince
2010-03-14 19:57:55 UTC
Permalink
Hunter wrote:
> In article <hnjccs$a0$***@speranza.aioe.org>, ***@defender.uni
> says...
>> On 3/13/2010 3:14 PM, Travoltron wrote:
>>> http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/hell_belz_not_me_rgLoVFefaClM2H1ooIR7oL
>>> The actor said that after waiting an unusually long time for service, he
>>> put his hands on Agnew's shoulder, but did nothing after that but ask
>>> for help.
>>> Agnew filed a harassment complaint with the NYPD, which she can pursue
>>> in Civil Court.
>>>
>>> "I just think something more could have been done," Agnew said. "Had it
>>> been someone else, there would have been some repercussions."
>> She's probably right about that part. A regular guy probably wouldn't
>> have been given the time to explain nor ask for the surveillance video.
> ----
> His putting his hands on someone's shoulders in the context he
> explained and is very likely backed up by the video tape is perfectly
> appropriate. Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
> his/her attention including one's shoulders? I have and I have had it
> done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
> just her shoulder for Christ sake!! And from what I gathered from
> this and other stories about the incident it wasn't in a rough
> manner. He certainly didn't grab her by the shoulders and spun her
> around. That would had been offensive and she would be justified in
> her complaint but that didn't happen.
>
> And we know the store employee heavily embellished her story since
> key instances, most importantly the choking, didn't happened as
> revealed by the store security video tape. And yes a lot of ordinary
> people wouldn't had been given the time to explain or ask for the
> surveillance video, but that isn't his fault or any other
> celebrity's. Yes that is probably preferential treatment, but they
> are getting the consideration EVERYONE should get in that situation.
> The question isn't that rich celebrities should be treated like
> everyone else, I think in this case an many others the everyone else
> should be treated like the rich celebrities. For instance it doesn't
> make me feel better that rich suspects like in the ENRON and ENRON
> like cases get "perp walked" in front of cameras like everyone else,
> I don't like the "perp walk" in anycase because I believe it violates
> innocence until proven guilty. So I think Belzer was given the
> treatment everyone else should get. What would be the hurt to cops if
> an average Joe would have the cops check the video tape to see if it
> backs him up *before* he has to go through the ordeal of being
> arrested and put through the system?
>> I hope this was a wake-up call for Belzer, but it probably wasn't.
> ---
> It is a wake up call only if it was his fault. From what was
> described and according to the cops there wasn't anything wrong with
> the touch. Even if it was somehow a little inappropriate, the fact
> that she lied about the choking-something that would had been on the
> tape and clearly would had been an assault-shows that she either had
> the spur of the moment thought to take advantage of a celebrity for
> financial gain or had that idea going in the moment she saw him in
> the store. If there should be "repercussions" it should be against
> the woman who filed the false report. Try to reconcile these two
> sides:
>
> "I'm not star-struck by anyone," Agnew said. "I approached him like
> he was a regular customer. I asked, 'How can I help you?' He told me
> what he needed, and then before I was able to speak again, he lunges
> in and grabs my neck. It was no gentle manner. There is no gentle
> manner to grab someone's neck."
>
> But according to the cops:
>
> "Belzer, 65, who lives on Riverside Drive, was questioned by police,
> but not charged with a crime. Cops also looked at surveillance video,
> and determined that he did nothing wrong."
>
> Both http://tinyurl.com/yeokf36
>
> I believe the videotape backs up Belzer. Cops bust celebrities all
> the time. If there was something criminal on the tap NYPD would had
> collared him.
>
> It could be a "wake up call" to rich celebrities that they have to be
> careful with ordinary people and you can't be too friendly with them.
> Remember that if you see a celebrity and you walk up to them and they
> seem to act like you are about mug them or something. I strongly
> suspect that is what Andrew essentially tried to do with Belzer.


OOOOK
Let me understand this if the above happen to me since I'm not a star
I couldn't request the video be used to prove me innocent?

Thats news to me
Hunter
2010-03-21 23:07:22 UTC
Permalink
In article <4b9e832c$0$31285$***@cv.net>, ***@optonline.net
says...
> Hunter wrote:
> > In article <hnjccs$a0$***@speranza.aioe.org>, ***@defender.uni
> > says...
> >> On 3/13/2010 3:14 PM, Travoltron wrote:
> >>> http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/hell_belz_not_me_rgLoVFefaClM2H1ooIR7oL
> >>> The actor said that after waiting an unusually long time for service, he
> >>> put his hands on Agnew's shoulder, but did nothing after that but ask
> >>> for help.
> >>> Agnew filed a harassment complaint with the NYPD, which she can pursue
> >>> in Civil Court.
> >>>
> >>> "I just think something more could have been done," Agnew said. "Had it
> >>> been someone else, there would have been some repercussions."
> >> She's probably right about that part. A regular guy probably wouldn't
> >> have been given the time to explain nor ask for the surveillance video.
> > ----
> > His putting his hands on someone's shoulders in the context he
> > explained and is very likely backed up by the video tape is perfectly
> > appropriate. Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
> > his/her attention including one's shoulders? I have and I have had it
> > done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
> > just her shoulder for Christ sake!! And from what I gathered from
> > this and other stories about the incident it wasn't in a rough
> > manner. He certainly didn't grab her by the shoulders and spun her
> > around. That would had been offensive and she would be justified in
> > her complaint but that didn't happen.
> >
> > And we know the store employee heavily embellished her story since
> > key instances, most importantly the choking, didn't happened as
> > revealed by the store security video tape. And yes a lot of ordinary
> > people wouldn't had been given the time to explain or ask for the
> > surveillance video, but that isn't his fault or any other
> > celebrity's. Yes that is probably preferential treatment, but they
> > are getting the consideration EVERYONE should get in that situation.
> > The question isn't that rich celebrities should be treated like
> > everyone else, I think in this case an many others the everyone else
> > should be treated like the rich celebrities. For instance it doesn't
> > make me feel better that rich suspects like in the ENRON and ENRON
> > like cases get "perp walked" in front of cameras like everyone else,
> > I don't like the "perp walk" in anycase because I believe it violates
> > innocence until proven guilty. So I think Belzer was given the
> > treatment everyone else should get. What would be the hurt to cops if
> > an average Joe would have the cops check the video tape to see if it
> > backs him up *before* he has to go through the ordeal of being
> > arrested and put through the system?
> >> I hope this was a wake-up call for Belzer, but it probably wasn't.
> > ---
> > It is a wake up call only if it was his fault. From what was
> > described and according to the cops there wasn't anything wrong with
> > the touch. Even if it was somehow a little inappropriate, the fact
> > that she lied about the choking-something that would had been on the
> > tape and clearly would had been an assault-shows that she either had
> > the spur of the moment thought to take advantage of a celebrity for
> > financial gain or had that idea going in the moment she saw him in
> > the store. If there should be "repercussions" it should be against
> > the woman who filed the false report. Try to reconcile these two
> > sides:
> >
> > "I'm not star-struck by anyone," Agnew said. "I approached him like
> > he was a regular customer. I asked, 'How can I help you?' He told me
> > what he needed, and then before I was able to speak again, he lunges
> > in and grabs my neck. It was no gentle manner. There is no gentle
> > manner to grab someone's neck."
> >
> > But according to the cops:
> >
> > "Belzer, 65, who lives on Riverside Drive, was questioned by police,
> > but not charged with a crime. Cops also looked at surveillance video,
> > and determined that he did nothing wrong."
> >
> > Both http://tinyurl.com/yeokf36
> >
> > I believe the videotape backs up Belzer. Cops bust celebrities all
> > the time. If there was something criminal on the tap NYPD would had
> > collared him.
> >
> > It could be a "wake up call" to rich celebrities that they have to be
> > careful with ordinary people and you can't be too friendly with them.
> > Remember that if you see a celebrity and you walk up to them and they
> > seem to act like you are about mug them or something. I strongly
> > suspect that is what Andrew essentially tried to do with Belzer.
>
>
> OOOOK
> Let me understand this if the above happen to me since I'm not a star
> I couldn't request the video be used to prove me innocent?
>
> Thats news to me
---
Maybe not if the cops don't give you the time. I would hope so.
--
----->Hunter

"No man in the wrong can stand up against
a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'."

-----William J. McDonald
Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907
D.F. Manno
2010-03-20 02:03:58 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@news.optonline.net>,
Hunter <***@my-deja.com> wrote:

> Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
> his/her attention including one's shoulders?

No, I haven't.

> I have and I have had it
> done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
> just her shoulder for Christ sake!!

It's still battery.

--
D.F. Manno
***@mail.com
"Quid lucrum istic mihi est?"
Vince
2010-03-20 04:12:15 UTC
Permalink
D.F. Manno wrote:
> In article <***@news.optonline.net>,
> Hunter <***@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>> Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
>> his/her attention including one's shoulders?
>
> No, I haven't.
>
>> I have and I have had it
>> done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
>> just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
>
> It's still battery.
>

Say what? Since when?
theget
2010-03-20 18:32:55 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 20, 12:12 am, Vince <***@optonline.net> wrote:
> D.F. Manno wrote:
> > In article <***@news.optonline.net>,
> >  Hunter <***@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >> Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
> >> his/her attention including one's shoulders?
>
> > No, I haven't.
>
> >> I have and I have had it
> >> done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
> >> just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
>
> > It's still battery.
>
> Say what? Since when?

I really don't know, but if I had to guess I'd say that law was older
then the hills.

http://www.answers.com/topic/assault-and-battery

Theget
Vince
2010-03-20 19:39:55 UTC
Permalink
theget wrote:
> On Mar 20, 12:12 am, Vince <***@optonline.net> wrote:
>> D.F. Manno wrote:
>>> In article <***@news.optonline.net>,
>>> Hunter <***@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>> Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
>>>> his/her attention including one's shoulders?
>>> No, I haven't.
>>>> I have and I have had it
>>>> done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
>>>> just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
>>> It's still battery.
>> Say what? Since when?
>
> I really don't know, but if I had to guess I'd say that law was older
> then the hills.
>
> http://www.answers.com/topic/assault-and-battery
>
> Theget
>


WOW is such is the case I should be doing hard time by now, anyway I
guess in most cases its not enforced
theget
2010-03-20 18:14:07 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 19, 10:03 pm, "D.F. Manno" <***@mail.com> wrote:
> In article <***@news.optonline.net>,
>
>  Hunter <***@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
> > his/her attention including one's shoulders?
>
> No, I haven't.
>
> > I have and I have had it
> > done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
> > just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
>
> It's still battery.

Or worse.

"Man grabs girl's arm – now he's a sex offender"
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45104

Theget
Vince
2010-03-20 19:21:36 UTC
Permalink
theget wrote:
> On Mar 19, 10:03 pm, "D.F. Manno" <***@mail.com> wrote:
>> In article <***@news.optonline.net>,
>>
>> Hunter <***@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>> Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
>>> his/her attention including one's shoulders?
>> No, I haven't.
>>
>>> I have and I have had it
>>> done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
>>> just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
>> It's still battery.
>
> Or worse.
>
> "Man grabs girl's arm – now he's a sex offender"
> http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45104
>
> Theget


That is plain scary, what they got a bunch of kooks in the DA's office
or just repubs?
theget
2010-03-20 18:41:02 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 20, 3:21 pm, Vince <***@optonline.net> wrote:
> theget wrote:
> > On Mar 19, 10:03 pm, "D.F. Manno" <***@mail.com> wrote:
> >> In article <***@news.optonline.net>,
>
> >>  Hunter <***@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >>> Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
> >>> his/her attention including one's shoulders?
> >> No, I haven't.
>
> >>> I have and I have had it
> >>> done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
> >>> just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
> >> It's still battery.
>
> > Or worse.
>
> > "Man grabs girl's arm – now he's a sex offender"
> >http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45104
>
> > Theget
>
> That is plain scary,

I suspect the girl was scared and that may have precipitated legal
action against the man who grabbed her arm.


> what  they got a bunch of kooks in the DA's  office

The law is a blunt instrument.


> or just repubs?

Repubs? Yes, just like Nifong, all bad DAs are... oh no, wait he was a
Dem wasn't he? But please oh please don't let that stop the name
calling.

IANAL, but it would seem to be reasonable advice to avoid touching
people, particularly ones you don't know, and if you do beg their
pardon. "Oh, please excuse me, I'm terribly sorry," even when you are
not at fault may be a better path then, "Watch where you're going
moron!"

Also, remember, that in the political environment we live in there may
be situations where if you don't lay hands on someone you may be
charged with reckless indifference or something else. Maybe. I'm not
certain.

Good luck.

Did I mention IANAL.

Theget
Vince
2010-03-20 19:53:54 UTC
Permalink
theget wrote:
> On Mar 20, 3:21 pm, Vince <***@optonline.net> wrote:
>> theget wrote:
>>> On Mar 19, 10:03 pm, "D.F. Manno" <***@mail.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <***@news.optonline.net>,
>>>> Hunter <***@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>>> Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
>>>>> his/her attention including one's shoulders?
>>>> No, I haven't.
>>>>> I have and I have had it
>>>>> done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
>>>>> just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
>>>> It's still battery.
>>> Or worse.
>>> "Man grabs girl's arm – now he's a sex offender"
>>> http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45104
>>> Theget
>> That is plain scary,
>
> I suspect the girl was scared and that may have precipitated legal
> action against the man who grabbed her arm.
>
>
>> what they got a bunch of kooks in the DA's office
>
> The law is a blunt instrument.
>
>
>> or just repubs?
>
> Repubs? Yes, just like Nifong, all bad DAs are... oh no, wait he was a
> Dem wasn't he? But please oh please don't let that stop the name
> calling.
>
> IANAL, but it would seem to be reasonable advice to avoid touching
> people, particularly ones you don't know, and if you do beg their
> pardon. "Oh, please excuse me, I'm terribly sorry," even when you are
> not at fault may be a better path then, "Watch where you're going
> moron!"
>
> Also, remember, that in the political environment we live in there may
> be situations where if you don't lay hands on someone you may be
> charged with reckless indifference or something else. Maybe. I'm not
> certain.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Did I mention IANAL.
>
> Theget
>
>
>
IANAL????
Vince
2010-03-20 19:56:23 UTC
Permalink
theget wrote:
> On Mar 20, 3:21 pm, Vince <***@optonline.net> wrote:
>> theget wrote:
>>> On Mar 19, 10:03 pm, "D.F. Manno" <***@mail.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <***@news.optonline.net>,
>>>> Hunter <***@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>>> Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
>>>>> his/her attention including one's shoulders?
>>>> No, I haven't.
>>>>> I have and I have had it
>>>>> done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
>>>>> just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
>>>> It's still battery.
>>> Or worse.
>>> "Man grabs girl's arm – now he's a sex offender"
>>> http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45104
>>> Theget
>> That is plain scary,
>
> I suspect the girl was scared and that may have precipitated legal
> action against the man who grabbed her arm.
>
>
>> what they got a bunch of kooks in the DA's office
>
> The law is a blunt instrument.
>
>
>> or just repubs?
>
> Repubs? Yes, just like Nifong, all bad DAs are... oh no, wait he was a
> Dem wasn't he? But please oh please don't let that stop the name
> calling.
>
> IANAL, but it would seem to be reasonable advice to avoid touching
> people, particularly ones you don't know, and if you do beg their
> pardon. "Oh, please excuse me, I'm terribly sorry," even when you are
> not at fault may be a better path then, "Watch where you're going
> moron!"
>
> Also, remember, that in the political environment we live in there may
> be situations where if you don't lay hands on someone you may be
> charged with reckless indifference or something else. Maybe. I'm not
> certain.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Did I mention IANAL.
>
> Theget
>
>
>


Talk about not touching a low life punched me in the back because I got
ahead of him on the bus, did I report him? No I elbowed him in the gut
and that was that.
theget
2010-03-21 00:26:26 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 20, 3:56 pm, Vince <***@optonline.net> wrote:
> theget wrote:
> > On Mar 20, 3:21 pm, Vince <***@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> theget wrote:
> >>> On Mar 19, 10:03 pm, "D.F. Manno" <***@mail.com> wrote:
> >>>> In article <***@news.optonline.net>,
> >>>>  Hunter <***@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
> >>>>> his/her attention including one's shoulders?
> >>>> No, I haven't.
> >>>>> I have and I have had it
> >>>>> done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
> >>>>> just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
> >>>> It's still battery.
> >>> Or worse.
> >>> "Man grabs girl's arm – now he's a sex offender"
> >>>http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45104
> >>> Theget
> >> That is plain scary,
>
> > I suspect the girl was scared and that may have precipitated legal
> > action against the man who grabbed her arm.
>
> >> what  they got a bunch of kooks in the DA's  office
>
> > The law is a blunt instrument.
>
> >> or just repubs?
>
> > Repubs? Yes, just like Nifong, all bad DAs are... oh no, wait he was a
> > Dem wasn't he? But please oh please don't let that stop the name
> > calling.
>
> > IANAL, but it would seem to be reasonable advice to avoid touching
> > people, particularly ones you don't know, and if you do beg their
> > pardon. "Oh, please excuse me, I'm terribly sorry," even when you are
> > not at fault may be a better path then, "Watch where you're going
> > moron!"
>
> > Also, remember, that in the political environment we live in there may
> > be situations where if you don't lay hands on someone you may be
> > charged with reckless indifference or something else. Maybe. I'm not
> > certain.
>
> > Good luck.
>
> > Did I mention IANAL.
>
> > Theget
>
> Talk about not touching a low life punched me in the back because I got
> ahead of him on the bus, did I report him? No I elbowed him in the gut
> and that was that.

Thanks for the confession.

IANAL.

Theget
Vince
2010-03-21 04:50:07 UTC
Permalink
theget wrote:
> On Mar 20, 3:56 pm, Vince <***@optonline.net> wrote:
>> theget wrote:
>>> On Mar 20, 3:21 pm, Vince <***@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>> theget wrote:
>>>>> On Mar 19, 10:03 pm, "D.F. Manno" <***@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <***@news.optonline.net>,
>>>>>> Hunter <***@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
>>>>>>> his/her attention including one's shoulders?
>>>>>> No, I haven't.
>>>>>>> I have and I have had it
>>>>>>> done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
>>>>>>> just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
>>>>>> It's still battery.
>>>>> Or worse.
>>>>> "Man grabs girl's arm – now he's a sex offender"
>>>>> http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45104
>>>>> Theget
>>>> That is plain scary,
>>> I suspect the girl was scared and that may have precipitated legal
>>> action against the man who grabbed her arm.
>>>> what they got a bunch of kooks in the DA's office
>>> The law is a blunt instrument.
>>>> or just repubs?
>>> Repubs? Yes, just like Nifong, all bad DAs are... oh no, wait he was a
>>> Dem wasn't he? But please oh please don't let that stop the name
>>> calling.
>>> IANAL, but it would seem to be reasonable advice to avoid touching
>>> people, particularly ones you don't know, and if you do beg their
>>> pardon. "Oh, please excuse me, I'm terribly sorry," even when you are
>>> not at fault may be a better path then, "Watch where you're going
>>> moron!"
>>> Also, remember, that in the political environment we live in there may
>>> be situations where if you don't lay hands on someone you may be
>>> charged with reckless indifference or something else. Maybe. I'm not
>>> certain.
>>> Good luck.
>>> Did I mention IANAL.
>>> Theget
>> Talk about not touching a low life punched me in the back because I got
>> ahead of him on the bus, did I report him? No I elbowed him in the gut
>> and that was that.
>
> Thanks for the confession.
>
> IANAL.
>
> Theget
>


No confession just an example when to hit back, not hit when someone
touches meaning no harm.
D.F. Manno
2010-03-20 23:32:52 UTC
Permalink
In article
<7dbb54e5-92e7-4448-a4c3-***@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
theget <***@bigmailbox.net> wrote:

> D.F. Manno wrote:
> > Hunter wrote:
> >
> > > Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
> > > his/her attention including one's shoulders?
> >
> > No, I haven't.
> >
> > > I have and I have had it
> > > done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
> > > just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
> >
> > It's still battery.
>
> Or worse.
>
> "Man grabs girl's arm ­ now he's a sex offender"
> http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45104

I'd like to see that from a non-crazy source. It ain't called "World Nut
Daily" for nothing.

--
D.F. Manno
***@mail.com
"Quid lucrum istic mihi est?"
theget
2010-03-21 00:24:52 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 20, 7:32 pm, "D.F. Manno" <***@mail.com> wrote:
> In article
> <7dbb54e5-92e7-4448-a4c3-***@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>  theget <***@bigmailbox.net> wrote:
> > D.F. Manno wrote:
> > > Hunter wrote:
>
> > > > Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
> > > > his/her attention including one's shoulders?
>
> > > No, I haven't.
>
> > > > I have and I have had it
> > > > done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
> > > > just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
>
> > > It's still battery.
>
> > Or worse.
>
> > "Man grabs girl's arm ­ now he's a sex offender"
> >http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45104
>
> I'd like to see that from a non-crazy source. It ain't called "World Nut
> Daily" for nothing.

I can't find a direct link, but it looks like this originally appeared
in the Chicago Sun Times.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050703002415/http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-molest01.html



> "Quid lucrum istic mihi est?"

"istic"?

Theget
D.F. Manno
2010-03-21 15:08:31 UTC
Permalink
In article
<8aa34826-a9c5-4c52-99bb-***@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
theget <***@bigmailbox.net> wrote:

> D.F. Manno wrote:
> > theget wrote:
> > > D.F. Manno wrote:
> > > > Hunter wrote:
> >
> > > > > Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
> > > > > his/her attention including one's shoulders?
> >
> > > > No, I haven't.
> >
> > > > > I have and I have had it
> > > > > done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
> > > > > just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
> >
> > > > It's still battery.
> >
> > > Or worse.
> >
> > > "Man grabs girl's arm ­ now he's a sex offender"
> > > http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45104
> >
> > I'd like to see that from a non-crazy source. It ain't called "World Nut
> > Daily" for nothing.
>
> I can't find a direct link, but it looks like this originally appeared
> in the Chicago Sun Times.
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20050703002415/http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-molest01.html

Thanks for the cite. I couldn't find anything but blog rants about the
case when I Googled for the guy's name.

To me it sounds like a case of an overzealous prosecutor exploiting a
quirk in the law.

> > "Quid lucrum istic mihi est?"
>
> "istic"?

That's the translation Donald Westlake gave for the motto on the
Dortmunder family crest: "What's it in for me?"

--
D.F. Manno
***@mail.com
"Quid lucrum istic mihi est?"
Hunter
2010-03-22 05:32:15 UTC
Permalink
In article <7dbb54e5-92e7-4448-a4c3-
***@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, ***@bigmailbox.net
says...
> On Mar 19, 10:03 pm, "D.F. Manno" <***@mail.com> wrote:
> > In article <***@news.optonline.net>,
> >
> >  Hunter <***@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
> > > his/her attention including one's shoulders?
> >
> > No, I haven't.
> >
> > > I have and I have had it
> > > done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
> > > just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
> >
> > It's still battery.
>
> Or worse.
>
> "Man grabs girl's arm – now he's a sex offender"
> http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45104
>
> Theget
----
We are in trouble as a civilization:

Did Pedophilia Hysteria Cause Child's Death?
Tuesday, April 04, 2006

By Wendy McElroy

On Nov. 28, 2002, 2-year-old Abigail Rae died by drowning in a
village pond in England. Her death is currently stirring debate
because the ongoing inquest revealed an explosive fact. A man passing
by was afraid to guide the lost child to safety because he feared
being labeled "a pervert."

In the article "Day of the dad: paedophilia hysteria leaves men
afraid to help," The Telegraph raises a question that applies equally
to North America. Have high profile cases of pedophilia created such
public hysteria that the average decent human being, especially a
man, is now reluctant to approach a child in need?

Consider what happened to Abby. The toddler wandered from her nursery
school, Ready Teddy Go, through a door left open. A bricklayer named
Clive Peachey drove past her in his truck. At the inquest, he stated,
"I kept thinking I should go back. The reason I didn't was because I
thought people might think I was trying to abduct her."

Instead, he assured himself that the parents must be "driving around"
and would find her.

A few minutes thereafter, Abby fatally fell into an algae-covered
pond. Meanwhile, the nursery staff searched. When the mother noticed
the staff near her home, she was told they were looking for a "lost
dog" but the truth soon emerged. The frantic mother's search ended
when she leaped into the pond to fish out what she thought was Abby's
shoe.

continues at:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,190586,00.html

The story above also mentions the guy who merely grabbed a teenager's
arm to reprimand her.

Future generations are going to laugh at us.
--
----->Hunter

"No man in the wrong can stand up against
a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'."

-----William J. McDonald
Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907
theget
2010-03-22 06:27:00 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 22, 1:32 am, Hunter <***@my-deja.com> wrote:

> We are in trouble as a civilization:

I think "trouble" might be an understatement.

>
> Did Pedophilia Hysteria Cause Child's Death?
> Tuesday, April 04, 2006
[snip]
>
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,190586,00.html
>
> The story above also mentions the guy who merely grabbed a teenager's
> arm to reprimand her.
>
> Future generations are going to laugh at us.

Nah. If we keep up with all our current shenanigans we don't have to
worry about there being any future generations and so their laughter
isn't a problem.

Theget
Hunter
2010-03-21 07:05:05 UTC
Permalink
In article <dfmanno-***@news.albasani.net>,
***@mail.com says...
> In article <***@news.optonline.net>,
> Hunter <***@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
> > his/her attention including one's shoulders?
>
> No, I haven't.
---
I have, mostly just a tap with the fingers in a loud place and it has
been done to me. If someone wants to press charges over that then
something is wrong with that person and lets see if it gets anywhere
in court.
>
> > I have and I have had it
> > done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
> > just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
>
> It's still battery.
----
Technically yes, but not in this case at least since the police saw
nothing wrong on the video tape. However, there is something wrong
with the person that so sensitive they would press charges. It is at
best a clear over reaction, at worse a shake down of a celebrity.
Since the police found NOTHING criminal on the tape as there would
surely had been if the details of her story was true up to and
including choking I lean heavily on the Shakedown motive. Thank God
for video tape or Belzer would have to waste time and money in court
over this with many people thinking he actually
did it.
---
----->Hunter

"No man in the wrong can stand up against
a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'."

-----William J. McDonald
Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907
Vince
2010-03-21 07:21:34 UTC
Permalink
Hunter wrote:
> In article <dfmanno-***@news.albasani.net>,
> ***@mail.com says...
>> In article <***@news.optonline.net>,
>> Hunter <***@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
>>> his/her attention including one's shoulders?
>> No, I haven't.
> ---
> I have, mostly just a tap with the fingers in a loud place and it has
> been done to me. If someone wants to press charges over that then
> something is wrong with that person and lets see if it gets anywhere
> in court.
>>> I have and I have had it
>>> done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
>>> just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
>> It's still battery.
> ----
> Technically yes, but not in this case at least since the police saw
> nothing wrong on the video tape. However, there is something wrong
> with the person that so sensitive they would press charges. It is at
> best a clear over reaction, at worse a shake down of a celebrity.
> Since the police found NOTHING criminal on the tape as there would
> surely had been if the details of her story was true up to and
> including choking I lean heavily on the Shakedown motive. Thank God
> for video tape or Belzer would have to waste time and money in court
> over this with many people thinking he actually
> did it.
> ---
> ----->Hunter
>
>


Some years back there was this woman who was suing her neighbors left
and right for the silliest reasons mostly to do with children.
Sorry to say I don't recall her name or what city/state it was.
This sound at all familiar to anyone? I do recall she was a very ugly
woman.
poldy
2010-03-15 04:38:56 UTC
Permalink
In article <hnh68i$bbp$***@speranza.aioe.org>,
Travoltron <***@defender.uni> wrote:

> Despite the hassle, Belzer bought a new computer, a 21.5-inch iMac to go
> with an iBook the same store comped him at their opening.

iBook?
theget
2010-03-21 21:25:55 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 21, 11:08 am, "D.F. Manno" <***@mail.com> wrote:
> In article
> <8aa34826-a9c5-4c52-99bb-***@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>  theget <***@bigmailbox.net> wrote:
> > D.F. Manno wrote:
> > > theget wrote:
> > > > D.F. Manno wrote:
> > > > > Hunter wrote:
>
> > > > > > Haven't you put your hands on a perfect stranger to get
> > > > > > his/her attention including one's shoulders?
>
> > > > > No, I haven't.
>
> > > > > > I have and I have had it
> > > > > > done to me. I mean it is not like he touched her ass or something
> > > > > > just her shoulder for Christ sake!!
>
> > > > > It's still battery.
>
> > > > Or worse.
>
> > > > "Man grabs girl's arm ­ now he's a sex offender"
> > > >http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45104
>
> > > I'd like to see that from a non-crazy source. It ain't called "World Nut
> > > Daily" for nothing.
>
> > I can't find a direct link, but it looks like this originally appeared
> > in the Chicago Sun Times.
>
> >http://web.archive.org/web/20050703002415/http://www.suntimes.com/out...
>
> Thanks for the cite. I couldn't find anything but blog rants about the
> case when I Googled for the guy's name.
>
> To me it sounds like a case of an overzealous prosecutor exploiting a
> quirk in the law.

Probably, but there's not penalty for prosecutors being draconian so
he can get away with it.

>
> > > "Quid lucrum istic mihi est?"
>
> > "istic"?
>
> That's the translation Donald Westlake gave for the motto on the
> Dortmunder family crest: "What's it in for me?"

I like that. Practical and Moral at the same time!

Theget
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